But, what about the Swiss, Austrians and god knows who else who produce this style? Where are we going to get the resources to add their POV? If you feel that strongly that the US plays such a major role in beer production, why not put that in the American beer article? Wouldn't that be where you'd expect to find it anyhow? Mikebe 11:16, 12 December 2006 (UTC) Yes, it will be no problem getting Americans to write about the US POV on altbier. The problem with your final point, apart from the fact that it is based on a premise with which I absolutely do not agree, is that it is a logistical nightmare. Organising the styles by where they originated rather than by where the greatest quantity may or may not be produced today seems pretty clear to me. Which link do you mean? Secondly, as this is, in name anyhow, an encyclopedia, we need to have some kind of clear and obvious organisation. I'm a little confused with your reference to "the link's place". First of all, just to make it clear, I am trying to establish a sort of standard here that we all can feel comfortable with, not simply discuss a specific article or two.More important to include a variety of viewpoints than to achieve a false equality by eliminating all we have. In that case, I see no particularly compelling reason to eliminate information which highlights the diversity of the style, so long as it's made clear that it's only one perspective. Mikebe 09:51, 12 December 2006 (UTC)Īh, from the style pages? On the one hand, I agree if there's something more general but still informative to put in the links' place on the other hand, it's not as though any one country "owns" a particular style (which I think was your original point) - in the case of Altbier, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of examples and the bulk of production are in the US these days. If you have any suggestins, please put them forward. OTOH, the German guide is more "user friendly" than the bjcp (which contains brewing instructions). As far as bjcp links, there are no European beer organisations quite like them (train judges for home-brewing competitions) and, while there is a brewers association in Germany that does have some style information, it is only in German. Please keep in mind that most of these articles can stand perfectly well without the US POV. As for what replaces them, in the two cases I just mentioned, the articles look perfectly OK to me in their current state (the US POV has been removed, although it is very likely one of the homebrewers I mentioned will try to revert the page(s) later). Frankly, there are actually very few articles at this point that fall into this category, currently only two that I am aware where there are disputes: altbier and hefeweizen. As I said, the articles are only about non-US beers.What specifically do you propose goes in the articles in their place, and from what articles specifically do you propose trimming the information? - Stlemur 09:28, 12 December 2006 (UTC) What would be siad if the few German examples of IPA were given prominence in the article on that style? Patto1ro 08:52, 12 December 2006 (UTC) The same is true in other European beer style articles, where the only non-local information is about the USA. Giving prominence, for example, to the few Altbiers brewed in the USA on the Altbier page definitely adds an undue American focus. I agree that neither have a place in articles on non-American beers. Does anyone see anything wrong with this? Mikebe 08:32, 12 December 2006 (UTC) No. In view of the policy noted above, I propose to delete both from non-US beer articles. Interestingly most of the editors who seem to be insisting on both of these features (bjcp links and US perspective) are themselves US home-brewers who do not actually contribute content to the beer articles, but rather "guard" this content against removal. I believe that listing only US perpectives and brewing activities (in addition to the local) is a further violation of that policy. It has also been noted by a WP admin that listing only BJCP style guide links on non-US beers is a violation of that policy. It has been pointed out to me that Wikipedia already has a policy regarding Anglo-American focus.
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